Comments on: Beginner’s Mind http://blog.misterhamada.com/2010/03/beginners-mind/ Thu, 02 Feb 2012 01:30:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Learning On The Job » Beware the Expert, cont. http://blog.misterhamada.com/2010/03/beginners-mind/#comment-1418 Learning On The Job » Beware the Expert, cont. Sun, 11 Apr 2010 12:49:48 +0000 http://blog.misterhamada.com/?p=288#comment-1418 [...] This seems to be adding some scientific research to a Beginner’s Mind. [...] [...] This seems to be adding some scientific research to a Beginner’s Mind. [...]

]]> By: Learning On The Job » The Price of Expertise http://blog.misterhamada.com/2010/03/beginners-mind/#comment-1042 Learning On The Job » The Price of Expertise Wed, 24 Mar 2010 07:12:56 +0000 http://blog.misterhamada.com/?p=288#comment-1042 [...] is really more than I was expecting to say on the subject of Beginner’s Mind, but I came across an article from the Guardian – thanks to Andrew Sullivan – on the [...] [...] is really more than I was expecting to say on the subject of Beginner’s Mind, but I came across an article from the Guardian – thanks to Andrew Sullivan – on the [...]

]]> By: Clint http://blog.misterhamada.com/2010/03/beginners-mind/#comment-1038 Clint Mon, 22 Mar 2010 08:12:26 +0000 http://blog.misterhamada.com/?p=288#comment-1038 <a href="#comment-1036" rel="nofollow">@Jason Dyer </a> Sorry for the delay. Stupid unhealthiness... To me, self-deprecation is about belittling yourself (before others have the opportunity to do it). I might make self-deprecating remarks about my work so that others can identify with me, not because I truly believe my work has shortcomings. I guess, to some extent, I equate self-deprecation with false modesty. "Never fully satisfied with their work" is something completely different. @Jason Dyer Sorry for the delay. Stupid unhealthiness…

To me, self-deprecation is about belittling yourself (before others have the opportunity to do it). I might make self-deprecating remarks about my work so that others can identify with me, not because I truly believe my work has shortcomings. I guess, to some extent, I equate self-deprecation with false modesty.

“Never fully satisfied with their work” is something completely different.

]]> By: Jason Dyer http://blog.misterhamada.com/2010/03/beginners-mind/#comment-1036 Jason Dyer Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:50:18 +0000 http://blog.misterhamada.com/?p=288#comment-1036 "Never fully satisfied with their work" matches my exact definition of self-deprecation. I don't get where "the comfort of others" comes into play here. (Really, people would have preferred Bruckner not have been so hard on himself, because it led to erratic behavior and the *dis*comfort of others.) “Never fully satisfied with their work” matches my exact definition of self-deprecation.
I don’t get where “the comfort of others” comes into play here. (Really, people would have preferred Bruckner not have been so hard on himself, because it led to erratic behavior and the *dis*comfort of others.)

]]> By: Darren Kuropatwa http://blog.misterhamada.com/2010/03/beginners-mind/#comment-1033 Darren Kuropatwa Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:32:44 +0000 http://blog.misterhamada.com/?p=288#comment-1033 <a href="#comment-1011" rel="nofollow">@Clint </a> You nailed it. While what makes an expert "expert" is their continual striving to get better and not seeing themselves as experts, they're still experts. That inevitably influences their work and how they are seen by others. While an expert can strive to have a beginner's state of mind they can't have it anymore; that's not how growth works. Only true novices can genuinely be beginners and be seen as such for others. I am only an egg. We grok when waiting is filled. ;-) @Clint
You nailed it. While what makes an expert “expert” is their continual striving to get better and not seeing themselves as experts, they’re still experts. That inevitably influences their work and how they are seen by others. While an expert can strive to have a beginner’s state of mind they can’t have it anymore; that’s not how growth works. Only true novices can genuinely be beginners and be seen as such for others.

I am only an egg. We grok when waiting is filled. ;-)

]]> By: Clint http://blog.misterhamada.com/2010/03/beginners-mind/#comment-1013 Clint Wed, 17 Mar 2010 05:48:58 +0000 http://blog.misterhamada.com/?p=288#comment-1013 <a href="#comment-1006" rel="nofollow">@Darren Kuropatwa </a> I'd love to take credit for that line but just to be clear it comes from <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=g8GGrFCFS8kC&lpg=PP1&ots=i3C6THz5J3&dq=zen%20mind%20beginners%20mind&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q=zen%20mind%20beginners%20mind&f=false" rel="nofollow">Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind</a>. [This has been corrected above too.] I also love it when a beginner walks into a situation (any situation) and finds a solution simply because they were unencumbered by previous experience. Maybe the whole concept of 'Thinking Outside of the Box' is really just approaching problems with a Beginner's Mind. And I've decided I don't use the word 'grok' enough in my everyday life. I need to change that. @Darren Kuropatwa I’d love to take credit for that line but just to be clear it comes from Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind. [This has been corrected above too.]

I also love it when a beginner walks into a situation (any situation) and finds a solution simply because they were unencumbered by previous experience. Maybe the whole concept of ‘Thinking Outside of the Box’ is really just approaching problems with a Beginner’s Mind.

And I’ve decided I don’t use the word ‘grok’ enough in my everyday life. I need to change that.

]]> By: Clint http://blog.misterhamada.com/2010/03/beginners-mind/#comment-1011 Clint Wed, 17 Mar 2010 05:40:15 +0000 http://blog.misterhamada.com/?p=288#comment-1011 <a href="#comment-978" rel="nofollow">@Jason Dyer </a> Maybe it's a semantic distinction, but I think the use of the word 'experts' is where I have trouble with Dan's statement. An expert who is hard on herself is still an expert and is still seen with that mystique by those around her (and possibly herself). An expert who empathizes with a novice still places a distinction between himself and the novice. I don't think 'Beginner's Mind' is about self-deprecation. Self-deprecation is done for the comfort of others whereas approaching something as a beginner is done for oneself. When Michael Jordan decided to develop a turnaround J even though he was arguably already the best basketball player on the planet, he wasn't doing it as an example to his teammates. He saw an opportunity to improve himself. That people like myself point to that example to motivate myself and others is probably irrelevant to him; he did it just to get better. @Jason Dyer Maybe it’s a semantic distinction, but I think the use of the word ‘experts’ is where I have trouble with Dan’s statement. An expert who is hard on herself is still an expert and is still seen with that mystique by those around her (and possibly herself). An expert who empathizes with a novice still places a distinction between himself and the novice.

I don’t think ‘Beginner’s Mind’ is about self-deprecation. Self-deprecation is done for the comfort of others whereas approaching something as a beginner is done for oneself. When Michael Jordan decided to develop a turnaround J even though he was arguably already the best basketball player on the planet, he wasn’t doing it as an example to his teammates. He saw an opportunity to improve himself. That people like myself point to that example to motivate myself and others is probably irrelevant to him; he did it just to get better.

]]> By: Darren Kuropatwa http://blog.misterhamada.com/2010/03/beginners-mind/#comment-1006 Darren Kuropatwa Wed, 17 Mar 2010 04:08:26 +0000 http://blog.misterhamada.com/?p=288#comment-1006 Really loved the way you summed it up in this line: "In the beginner’s mind there are many possibilities, in the expert’s there are few." I find "many possibilities" inspiring. I love when a kids first groks a tough bit of mathematics; you can see it in their eyes. I also love watching a teacher drink deep of the electric kool-aid for the first time; their eyes shine too. Really loved the way you summed it up in this line:

“In the beginner’s mind there are many possibilities, in the expert’s there are few.”

I find “many possibilities” inspiring.

I love when a kids first groks a tough bit of mathematics; you can see it in their eyes.

I also love watching a teacher drink deep of the electric kool-aid for the first time; their eyes shine too.

]]> By: Jason Dyer http://blog.misterhamada.com/2010/03/beginners-mind/#comment-978 Jason Dyer Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:49:03 +0000 http://blog.misterhamada.com/?p=288#comment-978 You could just rewrite Dan's quote to be "experts who don't think of themselves as experts because they're so hard on themselves" and you get what you just said. I think it's possible to go a bit extreme with the self-deprecation. Bruckner was famous for this, causing him to do things like structure every symphony he wrote after Beethoven's 9th. Ives attempts later in life at revising his early work made things worse; most musicians play the original versions. You could just rewrite Dan’s quote to be “experts who don’t think of themselves as experts because they’re so hard on themselves” and you get what you just said.

I think it’s possible to go a bit extreme with the self-deprecation. Bruckner was famous for this, causing him to do things like structure every symphony he wrote after Beethoven’s 9th. Ives attempts later in life at revising his early work made things worse; most musicians play the original versions.

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